Tinfoil Swans Podcast

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On this episode

When Ruby Tandoh was 10 years old, she was already pulling her parents’ Nigel Slater cookbooks off the shelves, as enthralled by the storytelling as much as the recipes. By her teen years, she was hosting alarmingly earnest dinner parties for her school friends while her baffled parents looked on, and applying to compete onThe Great British Bake-Off. Not only was she cast — she made it all the way to the finals, launching a career as one of the most insightful, captivating, and lyrical food writers working today. Tandoh shares how the British food canon was once too buttoned-up for its own good, why she’s fascinated by Manchester’s distinctive chicken sandwich and Scotland’s Arbroath smokies in equal measure, and how algorithms have turned our meals into public performances.

She dives into the rituals of dinner partiesher love of old cookbooksthe simple joy of a cat-shaped jelly mold, why the heck there are so many cheese pull videos in our feeds, and why she’s still so curious and hopeful about the future of food.

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Meet our guest

Ruby Tandoh is a British baker, columnist, and author of the new book,All Consuming: Why We Eat the Way We Eat Now. She was a finalist on the fourth season ofThe Great British Bake Off(aired asThe Great British Baking Showin the United States), and at the time was the youngest competitor ever on the series. Tandoh has published the cookbooksCrumb,FlavourandCook As You Areand the audio baking guideBreaking Eggsas well as the nonfictionEat Up!: Food, Appetite and Eating What You Wantand the mental health zineDo What You Want. Her writing has appeared inThe Guardian,The New Yorker, Vittles,Elle,and Food & Wine.

Meet our host

Kat Kinsman is the executive features editor at Food & Wine, author ofHi, Anxiety: Life With a Bad Case of Nerveshost of Food & Wine’s Gold Signal Award-winning and Folio Award-nominated podcastTinfoil Swansand founder of Chefs With Issues. Previously, she was the senior food & drinks editor at Extra Crispy, editor in chief and editor at large at Tasting Table, and the founding editor of CNN Eatocracy. She won a 2024 IACP Award for Narrative Food Writing With Recipes and a 2020 IACP Award for Personal Essay/Memoirand has had work included in the 2020 and 2016 editions ofThe Best American Food Writing.

She was nominated for a James Beard Broadcast Award in 2013, won a 2011 EPPY Award for Best Food Website with 1 million unique monthly visitors, and was a finalist in 2012 and 2013. She is a sought-after international keynote speaker and moderator on food culture and mental health in the hospitality industry, and is the former vice chair of the James Beard Journalism Committee.

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Highlights from the episode

On the teenage behavior that scared her parents

“My parents are not entertainers. They’re not particularly sociable. So it was with some alarm that they saw me start throwing dinner parties when I was 16 or 17. I think they were like, ‘This is scary.’ They were probably at peace when I, as a teenager, dabbled in drinking and going out. At least they understood that. But making hors d’oeuvre for a group of girls from my school? That alarmed them.”

On definitively throwing a dinner party

“I think it’s important that we have guidelines because frankly, people are kidding themselves about when they’re throwing dinner parties. We’ve gone into this thing where nobody quite wants to admit to throwing a dinner party — it’s seen as being a little gauche maybe. So we use euphemisms like, ‘We’re just having people over,’ or ‘just throwing something together.’ I think it’s important to lay down the ground rules and draw up some definitions. I’ve got a friend who kind of throws these supper club dinner party things, and she makes something called ‘panna catta.’ It’s like a panna cotta but set in a cat-shaped jelly mold. It’s so silly and kind of sexy and weird and that kind of stuff is really coming back.”

On the changing nature of cookbooks

“Considering that you can get any recipe in the world at a click online, an argument could have been made that the cookbook was going to die. Of course it hasn’t. Something really interesting has happened; they’ve been freed of the responsibility to be useful. Now you can have hyper-specific cookbooks whose job is to tell a story, to be a monument to something, a biographical work, a poem to someone’s relationship with food. They no longer have to be everything, so they’re freed to be something else.”

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On the importance of preserving regional foods

“I’m fascinated with these regional traditional foodsbut I also want to expand the idea of what it can mean for a food to be regional and traditional. Now, if you were writing a book about regional British foods, you might write just as insightfully about spicy dip burgers — these chicken burgers with spicy sauce that are really popular in Manchester and big in the Halal scene. There are always new expressions of these particular food cultures, even as we lose the old produce-led distinctions.

Jane Grigson wrote a book about regional British foods. She went to producers, she went to farmers, and then she went to cooks and interviewed them about what they were eating. This book was from the mid-’80s, and I’ve been looking through it all the time recently because I’m curious about how much has changed since then. But a few years after that, another food writer, Claudia Rodentried to do something similar. Some of the researchers who came back to her were like, ‘We actually are having a really hard time finding regional British cooking still going on.’ This was just within a few years. What they chalked it up to was the fact that everyone was cooking from newspaper supplements and food magazines. Very quickly you see this transition from there being delineations and distinctions to a homogenous food culture.

I’m fascinated by these moments when this kind of change really happens.”

On being present in the moment

“I increasingly feel anxious about posting my cooking online, not because I really care what anyone thinks, because I don’t. But photographing and recording things takes away that wonderful ephemeral spontaneity about it. Jane Grigson said the benefit of cookery over the other arts is that you can make something and it disappears. You don’t have to deal with it being permanent. Posting takes that away.”

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About the podcast

Food & Wine has led the conversation around food, drinks, and hospitality in America and around the world since 1978.Tinfoil Swanscontinues that legacy with a new series of intimate, informative, surprising, and uplifting interviews with the biggest names in the culinary industry and beyond, sharing never-before-heard stories about the successes, struggles, and fork-in-the-road moments that made these personalities who they are today.

This season, you’ll hear from icons and innovators like Roy Choi, Byron Gomez, Vikas Khanna, Romy Gill, Matthew Lillard, Ana and Lydia Castro, Laurie Woolever, Karen Akunowicz, Hawa Hassan, Dr. Jessica B. Harris, Wylie Dufresne, Samin Nosrat, Curtis Stone, Tristen Epps, Padma Lakshmi, Ayesha Curry, Regina King, Antoni Porowski, Run the Jewels, Chris Shepherd, Tavel Bristol-Joseph, Paola Velez, Bryan Caswell, Harry Hamlin, Angela Kinsey and Joshua Snyder, Hunter Lewis, Dana Cowin, Edward Lee, Cassandra Peterson (aka Elvira), Ruby Tandoh, June BornPhil Rosenthal, and other special guests going deep with host Kat Kinsman on their formative experiences; the dishes and meals that made them; their joys, doubts and dreams; and what’s on the menu in the future. Tune in for a feast that’ll feed your brain and soul — and plenty of wisdom and quotable morsels to savor.

New episodes drop every Tuesday.Listen and follow on:Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Amazon Music, TuneIn or wherever you get your podcasts.

These interview excerpts have been edited for clarity.

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Editor’s Note: The transcript for download does not go through our standard editorial process and may contain inaccuracies and grammatical errors.